Saturday, December 27, 2008

Anti-Israel Protest

Israel took action today to stop the daily rocket attacks that have plagued the south of that tiny nation for years. Hamas' action lead to this conflict and they can only blame themselves for the results, however a few here don't agree with me on this and I went to get their side of it in pictures.

Seattle Israel prostest001 Seattle Israel prostest003

The signs were standard fair and ready made, there for anyone who wanted one

Seattle Israel prostest006

But firing rockets into civilian towns is ok because Israel is so mean. Hey, why are you hiding your face?

Because you don't like me? But I've always been so nice to you.

Seattle Israel prostest036

Look I can see your face and I remember you too,

You are an Iraq Vet Against the War, You are Out and Proud, (your words) and lets get a good look at that t-shirt...

Seattle Israel prostest032

You are a communist!!!

Seattle Israel prostest015

Stop Hamas from Attacking Civilians

Seattle Israel prostest011

Thank you President Carter!

Seattle Israel prostest022

When the rockets stop, Israel does. When the rockets start, they stop.

Seattle Israel prostest025 Seattle Israel prostest059

It's to protect the children, they say. Several tried to say Israel targeted Children today, 1 claimed Israel killed 200 children by bombing a hospital but he backed down after I pointed out that it was a security forces headquarters. Then a 2nd person tried to say Israel was bombing kids on the way to school, until I pointed out that the bombing started at 6am. She still tried to go that route but I would think that when air raids start school is going to be closed.

Seattle Israel prostest054

I met with several who claimed to have direct communications with people in Gaza today! I hope Homeland Security got them on the warrantless wiretaps.

Seattle Israel prostest064

Did I remember to thank Jimmy Carter?

Seattle Israel prostest074 Seattle Israel prostest070

The Hard Core.

Seattle Israel prostest072

International Solidarity Movement does not like Caterpillar

Seattle Israel prostest073

Another Israeli supporter.

And I got an interview with a man who runs another blog


Note and Correction: There is some contention between Burt and me on the numbers I used in my video, read comments for his questions over my numbers. The one error I did make was in the totals for the Oil For Food program. I made a typo adding an extra zero, again that number was based on .53 cents a day per Iraqi for 365 days over 10 years .53x25,000,000x365x10=48,362,500,000 not the 483,625,000,000 that I put in the video

Bert Sacks from BertOnIraq.blogspot.com

Update: A closer look at his business card revealed Bert's a truther! So take all his ranting with a grain of salt, the man has no ability to reason.

7 comments:

Bert On Iraq said...

George -- I don't know how to email you directly, so I'm posting this comment.

Thanks for credit to my blog and for giving me a fair hearing (pretty much) in your editing of our conversation.

But there are two errors in the on-screen numbers which you posted. As to building palaces, I used Madeleine Albright's $1.5 Billion estimate from May 1996 -- which is 5 years time -- and 20 million Iraqis living in South-Central Iraq -- since the north is a separate area, getting special treatment from the US and the UN.

The second number which is very off is the $.53 per day per person which applies only to the South-Central part of Iraq (again 20 million people) since the North got significantly more under oil-for-food. And that program only began pumping oil in 1997 and ran through 2002 -- i.e., for 6 years. If you do the calculation it comes to around $23 Billion. And that's for food, water, sanitation, electricity, education, medicine, all of the needs of those 20 million Iraqis.

That's why UNICEF reported, in August 1999, that there would be 500,000 Iraqi children alive if improving health conditions in 1990 (before the Gulf War) had continued to improve.

I hope this is clear ... and sorry that it needed to be fairly detailed. If you go to ConcernForIraq.org/infrastructure you can find citatioins for these details -- from American sources.

Best Regards, Bert Sacks

Bert On Iraq said...

George -- I am sorry that you have not been willing or able to correct your numbers in the video of our discussion from Saturday.

Especially your number for oil-for-food of $483,625,000,000 comes to $11/day/person rather than the $.53/day/person -- which the heads of that program cite. Your number is 20 times the actual number. Where does it come from?!

Bert

G'Willie said...

It should read 48,362,500,000 sorry that was a typo, somehow I got an extra zero in there. I will make a note of that on the blog and on YouTube. The video is made and I will not be able to correct it at this time. I will let your comment stand to let my readers know we have a point of contention here.
Both numbers are based on your quotes, per day, times 25 million Iraqis, times 10 years. I did not make political distinctions with the Shia in the south or the Kurd in the north. Nor did I only count 5 or 6 years, it was my understanding that the sanctions were over ten years, but if you count only 5 or 6 years then my numbers are way off because the ten year total would be much higher since with each continued violation Saddam made the sanctions got tougher.
You cite the UNICEF report and I’m glad you did, I had only heard the numbers, not the important detail you include, “that there would be 500,000 Iraqi children alive if improving health conditions in 1990 (before the Gulf War) had continued to improve.” So we can agree that all of those lives would have been saved if Iraq didn’t invade Kuwait! It was not the sanctions but the action of a ruthless dictator who (not killed) failed to allow 500,000 lives to grow. UNICEF also appears to assume that these “improving health conditions” would continue, yet history shows how rare that is when ruthless dictators rule a nation. These improvements were catch-up repairs that had been neglected after 10 years of war with Iran and likely not have continued beyond the bare minimum required.

Thru My Eyes said...

I'm with Israel all the way

Bert On Iraq said...

George -- I am sorry that you have chosen to respond with an insult and to reduce our discussion to that level. Bert

"Update: A closer look at his business card revealed Bert's a truther! So take all his ranting with a grain of salt, the man has no ability to reason."

Bert On Iraq said...

I will add one more correction to what you have written, George, but then (unless you choose to apologize to me on you website for your insulting remark) no one should take my future silence as anything other than my unwillingness to continue a dialogue where I'm being insulted.

As I said clearly in our video, the 53 cents a day per Iraqi was the money which the oil-for-food program was allowed to provide. Since that program ran for only 6 of the 12 years of the sanctions, you should have multiplied by the 6 years of the program -- not 10.

"I made a typo adding an extra zero, again that number was based on .53 cents a day per Iraqi for 365 days over 10 years .53x25,000,000x365x10=48,362,500,000 not the 483,625,000,000 that I put in the video"

G'Willie said...

Truth is Burt I don't believe anyone who is a truther has the ability to reason. If that is an insult to you then I guess you will have to live with that. I don't care!!!